SEO Podcast .001 – Kalin Karakehayov Talks Domains

Kalin Karakehayov is an entrepreneur and founder of Seo.domains.

In this installment of SirLinksalot’s SEO Podcast, we dive deep into Kalin’s extensive knowledge on buying domains for SEO, getting started with and running his business, and much more.

Think you’d be a great addition to our podcast or have a request for someone to be featured? Head over to our podcast discovery page.

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Read the Full Transcript:

Chris: All right everybody. We are here with our first-ever podcast. Today we’ve got Kalin, and I’m not even going to try to say your last name. Maybe you can help us out with that.

Kalin: It’s Karakehayov, it’s a difficult name, quite hard to pronounce.

Chris: Karakehavov.

Kalin: Yes, you did a good job.

Chris: Yeah, I’ve got a pretty weird last name too. So, I know what it’s like to mess up people’s last names or have them messed up. So, I’ll just stay hands off. But we’re excited to have you here today. Maybe you can tell everybody a little bit about yourself, what you do, and that kind of thing.

Kalin: Well, I run a company. I started actually at about 50 people, the company is called E-Doms but it’s probably more known to the SEO community as SEO.domains because this is our branch turned to SEO to provide good expired domains with links and history. I have more than 10 years experience in SEO, but the last few years I’m mostly doing domains because this is how our business evolved.

Chris: Yeah, I saw on your, I think it was on your Facebook. I saw something else that was maybe ‘Tool.domains’.

Kalin: Yeah, this is the company that is now being rebranded as E-Doms. So, this is the model company.

Chris: Okay. So, I guess you pretty much stay busy, your day-to-day just doing company stuff, doing stuff with SEO domains.

Kalin: Well, yeah. I have a lot a lot of responsibilities, mostly managing people these days because I care for about 30 people under my direct management. But I also do a lot of technical stuff, a lot of evaluation of domains in regards to SEO, backlink profiles and also a lot of things in the domain industry about domain catching.

Nick: Right. So, you’ve been in SEO for about 10 years, about how long before where you jumped from. I feel like whenever we jump into SEO, whenever we’re getting started, we start to branch out in a bunch of different directions. What we come to find is we specialize in one specific thing, and then we kind of run with that and build a business off it. For me, it was PBN building. So, for you getting started in SEO, what kind of drew you into the industry, and then how did you end up getting into procuring domains as your main point of business?

Kalin: Well, I started in SEO about twelve years ago. It was really fascinating because I was really free to find a an industry, which is not zero sum. So, when you put a website with content, you get constant traffic from Google. So, you put a one-time effort and then you get constant returns, which is something like most things in the economy work. Also later I discovered that when two websites link one from the other that one the website that got a link takes a lot of value out the other loses nothing, so again nonzero-sum. A lot more opportunity for creating value. So, after this I was hooked up into SEO, it was my thing. I was always very much focused on link building because on page SEO, I find necessary but boring.

Chris: I wonder if there’s anybody who likes it.

Kalin: In link building, you have much more opportunities for both, for scaling and for more creative opportunities.

Chris: Sure.

Kalin: So, I’m a fan of scaling. I did a lot of PBNs but six years ago, our PBNs about 2005 sites got massively hit by Google. It was back in the days where people didn’t protect their PBNs a lot with different, who is an IPS and all of that. So, we didn’t take the necessary precautions and we got hit. But this turned out to be quite a good thing because then we decided, okay if PBNs are not for a lifetime. Maybe we should have a constant feed of good domains. If we got hit, so we can replace them easily with new ones. That’s how I started moving into domains. The idea of that move was that before we did some scraping about seven, eight years ago that was just found in broken links using a tool.

Nick: Okay, sure.

Kalin: We did find some domains but never super good ones. Then we started thinking in the direction of what if we knew from advance all the domains that exists that we won’t have to do all this exhaustive crawling only to find a very small part of them. So, I started learning about domains basically from scratch. About the different extensions where you could find lists, what are the ways to compile a database, how you could maintain it. Basically this lets in to us turning to a different direction more technical one. It’s your aside and started digging into the domain industry to find out can we really build this database of domains. Then we built it in one or two years, we had very good coverage of the existing domains.

But then the problem was that when domains expired, we couldn’t catch them. So, the next few years were building up a catching system, building up monitoring systems, buying servers, buying accreditation, partnering up, integrating API’s. This continues to this day, and right now we are sending I think about 20 million drop kitting queries a day via API.

Nick: Wow. That’s amazing, that’s wild. Now you seem like a very technical guy. Do you mind if I ask what you did before you jumped into SEO, and then in aspects to procuring those domains, you were talking about learning different techniques to gauge the value of those. For everybody, it seems to be different especially on levels of technicality. Was there specific schools you went to or were you just kind of searching all over the internet for these answers, and then testing what actually worked whenever it came to procuring these domains.

Kalin: Well, before starting SEO, I did a little bit of web design so that trying to learn HTML and some really basic stuff. Before this I was a professional chess player and chess coach.

Nick: Really? That is awesome.

Kalin: It involved a lot of traveling, like it was clear that it will, I couldn’t sustain my life all my life doing that. So, it was more like youngster thing. It was when I got out of university and decided to settle down a bit. Then I started doing the web stuff quite quickly turning to SEO, and so I basically self-taught. I learnt everything online testing. I had a few websites, so I had a material to test with. The first web site I ever did SEO went out of Google for six months. I did over optimization or something.

Nick: I feel it’s very important, early educational stages of learning SEO. If you don’t completely tank a site, you’ll never know exactly where that line is. I think personally I say, it is important across.

Kalin: I was quite practical, just testing different stuff, building links, trying to rank projects and clients. I got involved into an SEO competition in Bulgaria, and yeah this was the first years and I was always more interested on the technical side.

Nick: So, Kalin is like a brain, like a massive brain. He entered this and then just figured it out on his own basically, which is amazing.

Chris:  So, you were doing web design. You started building websites for yourself in the beginning.

Kalin: Yeah, myself then some clients. But I was never actually a web developer. I just used to WordPress and had limited knowledge of HTML and just a tiny bit of CSS. But it was good that I worked for a while with clients because then I go to more experience to selling stuff and communicating with people.

Chris: So, then SEO was just something you found yourself from building his web sites, you were just thinking okay what’s up what’s the next step the website is here, now what?

Kalin: Yeah. I heard that it exists from a friends, and I got interested because I wanted to bring traffic to my chess websites, and organic traffic is the most usual one. Because I couldn’t find any targeted traffic for them but there was a large search volume for a lot of phrases. So, I just tried to do SEO for each one of them. I had a lot of time back then, I had basically the most important thing for an entrepreneur which was a lot of free time. If you have a day job, you’re basically squeezed into just your evenings time. But if you don’t have to do all day, you can be you can grow up amazingly fast. You feel optimistic and you don’t feel any constraints. I think three months after I first learned what WordPress is, I started making trainings for beginners about how to install WordPress and create their own website. So, it was a quite fast process between learning it myself and then doing it for clients and training it to people and creating a team, all of this took only about two or three years.

Nick: I mean you play chess through this business basically. What things have you learned from chess that you can apply to what you do now? Because it sounds like you find these natural progression that you can kind of jump to, and in a short matter of time, you’ve been able to build what I consider one of the better SEO domains kind of registrar’s empires so to speak.

Kalin: Well actually, my approaches to chess and to this business are quite different.

Nick: Okay.

Kalin: In chess, I recognize my limitations that I’m talented but not super talented. I am smart but not super smart. I’m prepared but not super prepared, and tried to play to my advantages. But also I realized in chess that it’s after all kind of a sport, although a mind sport but still a sport. So, the most important thing is to be optimally prepared for the for the game in a sports world. So, like it should feel good, you should be positive. You should be concentrated and all of this is really the most important thing. You can prepare for years but if then you go to the game, and you haven’t slept in at in or you’re not feeling well then you will still play bad.

So, the most important thing is to have your peek at the game itself. While, in the business it’s different because in the business you working 24/7, you don’t have some super important moments, you just have to give your best constantly. So, it’s a bit different playing a sport to building a business. You need a lot of consistency in the business, and this kind of comes naturally to me, the consistency I think I’m just stubborn and I push forward. So, from chess, I think the most important thing is strategic thinking trying always to see the big picture and always trying to make sense of stuff. But also a very important thing is that chess is extremely complicated game.

Very often you have the best moves to be completely illogical once. So, it’s when you play chess, you try to make sense of things but sometimes you should accept that you cannot find the best move, it should just settle with something okay. Because you feel that the position is too complicated. So, you are not afraid of making mistakes in chess because even the world champion makes the best moves only 70% of the time. This is the world champion, so it’s the perfect combination of talent, hard work, preparation everything. So, basically I’m not afraid of making mistakes because in chess mistakes are just human nature of things. You shouldn’t expect to play the best move more than 50%, 60% of the time. So, I’m not afraid to test stuff to try irrational experiments or just try everything like my dignity says try everything.

Nick: That’s awesome. Something I’d like to jump back to that I found really interesting, and it made me cringe a bit just because of the fact that I’m on pretty heavily involved in PBN as well (see Nick’s PBN Checklist). But when you say you had 2000 PBNs at that point in time, was that your main business focus, was the PBN and monetizing that?

Kalin: Yes, it was PBN selling links, ranking clients, ranking some of our own stuff. Selling links, I really like because it’s when you have an SEO client of course you overcharge compared to the value of the links. But then you have the clients calling you why did my audition for which two places and what can we do. You always have to monitor the website and your own page of what silly things they might do. Basically it’s a lot more work, it’s let’s say three times more money but ten times more work.

Nick: Sure, yeah.

Kalin: Link selling is very scalable. I always liked it, people just buy for the link as long as they have nothing to complain about so you can scale indefinitely, if you have a lot of websites and a lot of buyers, I really like that. Also link selling, I like a lot because let’s say you rent a link out for a year, and all of the money comes beforehand. Basically, no year-long services that work like that, I like that because it’s very good for cash flow. Yeah, so it went perfectly good, selling links until the Google penalties came.

Nick: So, at that point in time, did you have like a team working with you on this PBN because I mean a PBN is typically a ton of work.

Kalin: Oh yes, I had a team of seven or eight people.

Nick: When the hit came, about what percentage of the network did you lose overnight?

Kalin: We lost not overnight but over several hits, I think we lost about 60%.

Nick: Oh wow. I mean, what did that do. I mean, that had to have been some sort of low point in the business. I would assume like a stressful point. How did you bring yourself out of that?

Kalin: That was a very long point. It lasted about maybe six months to one year because we lost more and more. The thing with that is when you go down like this and you don’t really want to quit, you want to up either in the thing you’re doing or something related to it to make the most of what you have left. But psychologically it’s hard because you see that you’re losing and you’re going down, the trend is down. So, you should somehow find a way to get a positive trend again. For me, the way to do this was really a non-conventional one. I wrote an open letter to Google.

Nick: Really?

Kalin: Yeah, you can still find it on karakehayov.com. But I didn’t write it right away, the thing with it is that so we try to fire reconsideration requests for the penalized websites after removing links and so. But Google still didn’t approve that. Then we tried putting normal websites and they still wouldn’t fix the domain, and then we say okay let’s just hit into Google in a PR way. So, we put the best causes you can imagine, like for the poor people, for the oppressed woman, for the sick people, everyone who people empathize with in society, and we put like videos and like nice stuff about those causes online. Then we submitted about reconsideration but Google said it still think it’s pure spam, so then we make screenshot of what Google thinks is pure spam, and we put on an open letter that Google thinks that protecting woman’s right is spam or helping poor people is spam.

Nick: it is un-conventional, it’s awesome. It is really neat.

Kalin: So, we put a big open letter and in this open letter, we said that Google is a very dangerous monopoly. Basically they have no rules, which they abide by and they’re very dangerous. Everyone who cares about keeping Google as a monopolist, should install Ad Blocker and tell all their friends to do so, and make this pyro. Say if only one percent of people in Stalin Ad Blocking the browser, Google will lose one billion dollars a year.

Nick: That’s very methodical, that is awesome.

Kalin: We made that not viral but it went like semi viral. We’ve got maybe about more than 10,000 views quite quickly. It got some shares over social media, especially in Bulgaria it got shared everywhere in social media. Because here everyone knows and really respect me and my team. So, interesting thing after this, there were no more penalties, I got no response but there were no more penalties. It may have been accidental, I don’t know, I would never know but still it was very important psychologically that instead of Google hunting me and ours, it was now me hunting Google. I am trying to hit them so I felt a lot better. So, it didn’t actually matter that much if it helped or not but it’s the important thing was that me and my team felt a lot better. So, that was when the upwards trend started.

Nick: That’s awesome. I’m getting goose bumps about the story just because it’s so exciting to hear somebody go after the big guy like that, it’s a David and Goliath story, I love that about SEO.

Kalin: It was definitely fun, and there were tweets like wow this guy just declared war with Google. Despite the difficult otherwise, financial situation. After that basically, we saved part of the link selling business. We were motivated to start the domain finding business.

Chris: Okay. So, your team is with you in Bulgaria.

Kalin: Yes.

Chris: Were you able to I guess, I you kept the same team and just move them towards the new venture, which was domains.

Kalin: Yes. My team back then was about only eight people. Then I met with my co-founder Matodi, he is a very good developer. So, he started to, before this we didn’t have any developer in the team, we were just spammers. But with developers, it was different. We put all domains that we have into a database, started monitoring them. Opened a company officially because before it was just a bunch of freelancers, then we open the company. Amazingly with the idea of finding domains for SEO, basically for spamming stuff, we managed to get small seed investments from a fund that invest into stocks. Because we managed to convince them that the SEO industry is super profitable, and a lot of the competitive niches (see: 5 deadly niches) rely on links. We have a way to produce a commodity that produces links much cheaper than the market prices. Then we showed some case studies, real case studies with clients. The investors were convinced, and they gave us 15000 euro of initial investment.

Nick: Awesome. Do you mind discussing that a little bit? Maybe, because I feel like in SEO or at least within the niche that we’re in, which is these small kind of private SEO groups. We don’t hear a lot about going after venture capital or getting funding from somebody. So, in aspects of that did  these people before or did you just hatched a plan saying we need X amount of money in order to grow to a certain stage, and we’ll execute that and see who we can get on board.

Kalin: Well, it’s a small seed in the Bulgaria that use SEO money, everyone knows that. One year before I had tried with another project but failed because they decided that the space was not, didn’t have much perspective. But this time, it was different because we already had some revenue, which is very rare for start early phase because most startups try to build some product. Often have the product, we even don’t have the product finalized yet, they may have some user, so don’t have some users but they very rarely have revenue, which is the best proof actually for anything. Because the VC world is used to startups just burning money, building users for free service maybe with the idea of some free user switching to paid.

All of this is very hard stuff, most startups fail. So, if they get introduced to the SEO industry where basically everyone is making money. I think they will really appreciate the cash positives that the SEO industry brings.

Nick: Correct yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Chris: So, this might be prying a little bit. But when you approach the venture capital company, did you have to offer them part of the company or was it, how did it all work?

Kalin: Yes. We gave them 12%, and then another 10% for another investment one year later. So, basically our small company that was barely covering its cost gotten an evaluation of 1 million euro, which was quite soon after the second investment. But actually then it seems a lot to me. But now when I look back and I see that we already had a lot of potential that we actually didn’t develop in the fastest and best way. Because we didn’t know what we’re doing of course like most like founders.

Nick: Like all of us, right?

Kalin: Yes. But the investors put a lot of trust into us and they didn’t understand anything about the industry. So, it was just pure trust and basically with this, it’s always like this, it’s a trust thing they. They cannot understand your industry, so it’s difficult to grasp how little they understand about it. But if they trust you and if they get positive feedback from the other people they trust. In our case, they asked very good developer about the technical side about our project and got positive feedback from him. That’s technically good, so we know what we’re doing at least on the technical level.

They trusted in us and they gave us this funding, and this put us in a very unique position because most of our competition in people who try to get domains with SEO value. They don’t have an initial capital to invest into adding a database, into accreditations, into catching partnerships because our initial investment into domain database in catching was six-figure for sure, and now it has grown to 7 figures.

Nick: Right, wow.

Kalin: So, it’s really a lot, it does come back because we are chiefs care, we catch domains in a lot of different countries. We don’t catch the SEO domains, we catch premium domains, we catch traffic domains that don’t have good links but have a lot of traffic, let’s say former on a pirate websites or this kind of website. So, actually it does come back but the process is long, and if you don’t have at least six figures in capital to invest or if you don’t have, if you are very good developer yourself or you have a team of good developers. This may be lower but you need some, and the other two. So, it’s a lot of work and money to be invested.

Nick: Of course. So, you said it was initial investment of 15,000 euros and then one year later 1 million.

Kalin: It was 50, a 100K then second 100K for another 10% value of the company at one.

Nick: Okay. Well, so when you’re talking about taking in that kind of money via what you started off with. What was your mindset on at that point time, management specifically bringing more people on the team or procuring more domains? Because when I consider spending a 100,000 on domains worldwide. I’m thinking of just a whole lot of time and a whole lot of energy that has to be spent procuring the right domains. So, in aspects to that how do you, where was your focus? Management or just getting inventory, so that you could push sales?

Kalin: I would try the different things, and some of them were not good choices. We try to open a software as a service that you can use to search different things about domains and their owners like an investigation tool. A bit like domaintool.com but it was not a good idea because we didn’t have the right concept, I think of how we’ll sell this and also then GDPR came, with which the main basically vector of analysis. So, it was a killer blow for such project but the thing that worked before like selling links and basically getting easy cash. It worked after with buying domains and then selling them, buying and selling, catching better domains and selling those. In country-by-country, we discovered that the competition is not as big as it seemed when you really got into how the things work.

So, for example we would say okay let’s today investigate Serbia, domains they have good domains that drop with good links, they drop in this day, this hour. How can we catch in real time, what investment do we have to make. What partnerships should we make for the most important? Best domains, other local websites that offer back order services. Is there anyone who needs such domains from our clients, and a lot and a lot of different stuff? Now we are building a wiki for the domains for internal use, and we have 80 field for each TLD. So, there are 80 things that we research, and say for each TLD, from very stupid stuff like do they have one or two-letter domains, which are obviously variable, to Really complex stuff like who is limit, and how can we get all the data, is there assess to the complete list of domains.

So, a lot of really annoying technical domain knowledge that you cannot, there’s no one to ask basically. You can ask different details but there’s no one to ask all of it, discovering, compile your own. But this is really a great space to be because it kills the competition because if you need one thing with which you can kill all the competition in space is when things are boring and uncertain. So, they’re the two killer blows, like make a field uncertain and boring, and there will be no competition in it even if it takes you an hour 200,000 bucks.

Nick: Right.

Kalin: So, the domain names are extremely boring. I think, most of you would agree on this.

Nick: The names themselves, sure yeah. It is the hunt behind the domain itself that I always found interesting, kind of like archaeology.

Kalin: The hunt is interesting, but when you get into the technical details, it is supporting stuff again.

Nick: Sure.

Kalin: It’s like how many checks can you make against an API if you get blocked and stuff like that.

Nick: Is your hunt primarily software based or do you guys do any map like manual review teams or anything like that for what you’re looking for on the back end?

Kalin: It is software based but we mostly work with country domain, CCTLD that are quite messy. So, sometimes they don’t follow their own rules, for example domains may expire early or later then it should be officially. So, we have a lot of like QA work going on checking if the software works, if everything is okay, people comparing list to see if everything is planned. But we have a lot of manual work with evaluating. Because evaluating cannot automate.

Nick: Well, you’re hunting a bunch of different CCTLDs. So, how do you go about like with the language barriers, do you have different criteria and different languages that you’re looking for or how do you do about that? Because I know you’ve got like Greek domains, Serbian domains, any number of different places.

Kalin: Yes. We work in every country that is profitable. Actually the interesting stuff, it’s not about language that much. It’s about internet culture. So, for example an internet culture comes from a lot of things, the mindset of the people, the online community, the cost of the domains. For example in Bulgaria, the local domain .bg cost me 30 euro, which is a lot. So, there are no spammers in .bg and other domain. So, the .bg space is quite clean, there is not a lot of spam. But if you’re going into the Czech Republic where the domains cost 4 euro. You will find that there are so many directories, catalogs and other parented websites made by SEO spammers. So many exchanged links between websites like huge footers with a lot of exchange link and stuff like this or link pages where people exchange links.

So, you find that you cannot really trust your instincts because you can see, for referring domains 550 trust flow 20, but then it so exchange links.

Nick: Right.

Kalin: So, it’s all about culture. The link building works differently in different local markets, and in some places they use a lot of directories in the others, they sell a lot of articles. Some spaces are quite clean, and there’s no actually SEO spam at all. Let’s take Ireland.

Nick: Sure.

Kalin: In Ireland, it’s quite regulated to register your domain. So, in Ireland you don’t have spam almost at all. So, basically you can trust that all links that you see are genuine links. There’s a lot of different things in different countries, different kinds of spam basically you should understand at least a bit the language to see, well what is an article, what is a classified ads website. What is a directory? You should know these keywords in all the languages because you don’t want to buy a domain and anything else that only has directories or paid articles.

Chris: So, how are you going through these backlink profiles on, there are languages that you don’t speak. How are you doing that just initially, like when you’re trying to determine if the backlink profile is spammy or not and you’re looking at all their links and it’s in a foreign language, how are you making the determination?

Nick: Well, you develop a feeling after some time but basically before that you need to know a few different things. In each country, you should remember the website that have high DR, high DA, high metrics but that anyone can put a link into. So, like blog platforms and all of those. So, you don’t value them highly, if you see a DR 80 link coming from one of those, it’s just a blog platform so you ignore it, you should know those. You should know, like typically spammy anchors in each main language. But basically you don’t need to know the language because a good website has most of the rink with brand URL, and if you have a good feeling and instantly let’s say from the name of the domain or the first links, you know this kind of domain. What it was, let’s say it was a news website and you just seen this for first five second. Then you know how a news websites link profile should be. It should have a lot of links without pages from other news websites from blogs, diverse link profile. Then some links of course with the brand, so if you see that let’s say all of the links of the website that was supposed to be a news website lead to the home page then something is off. You do this small checks, internal checks all the time to verify actually if this is natural link profile or if it’s not natural.

Not natural doesn’t necessarily mean spam, they can be mirrors and websites that just are lists of websites. You can get a lot of links that are not beneficial but also not harmful. But your main idea is to see if there’s any really harmful links like anchor spam or if there are neutral links and positive, how much are the positive and how much are the neutral. Because you value the domain only based of the positive ones.

Nick: Okay right. So, maybe since you’ve been in this industry so long and so much data is passed through your eyes essentially. You seem to take a much broader approach to looking at the internet, and what that’s going to create as far as like domains go from specific countries. I find that really interesting because typically in these circles, we’re talking about kind of micro ideas of what makes a domain relevant. I assume you working with hundreds of thousands of sites all over the world, it’s really interesting to hear that you’ve got this broader viewpoint on what makes something natural on the internet versus unnatural. But would you say that now your approach to finding a good domain versus one that’s not so great is very simple at this point in time, which I know you’ve developed systems, so it’s kind of.

Kalin: Yes, if you take a thousand random domains. You have only something like ten or twenty, which you actually have to think more about before the evaluation. The other, a lot will be just bad because they have no link, so just spam links. Some would be good because they all have all nice natural links, and just a beautiful link profile. There will be very little middle ground cases. So, basically the challenge from one point is not how well you evaluate because you have to think only about one percent of the time actually if you experience. But how fast you evaluate. So, we have built a system, I can share my screen and show it to you that we do for extremely fast evaluation.

Nick: That will be amazing.

Kalin: Yeah. It’s an internal system, so I can share my scream and show it just for a few minutes.

Nick: Sure. If you don’t mind, I’m sure people would love to see that. I know I would.

Kalin: Okay. So, that’s the system basically. It has metrics and the point is that when you want to access a domain, you want to have it everything you want about the domain on one screen. Then only if you have to look at individual links, you open Ahrefs in another screen, which can be another monitor. So, you can look at the two at the same point. But basically these are the Majestic anchors pulled from the Majestic API. Majestic metrics, this is if it’s indexed on Google, it’s green so yes. It has GA, Google index and Alexa for a traffic indicator. If it’s not indexed, a good thing to save you time, not to dig in our key fork is the archive last date. So, if our archive last date is say six years ago, it hardly was a PBN. Because that’s just a long dead website that still has good links. Here you have Ahrefs metrics. Here you can leave comments and stuff or, here you have groups and tags and other internal stuff. Here you can put the price, and you can save it or you can put next domain in your trash. So, for example this domain, I just check Ahrfes to see how good the links are, and we find that actually this domain has not a lot links but good ones from top Brazil media.

So, this domain is good for buying, and let’s say it also has DA 35 which is quite nice. It has trust flow 1 which you can see how bad trust flow actually is. This domain had three or four top media links right from DR 80 links. But here is trust flow 1. So, let’s say that because Brazilian domains here have high demand put this domain at 70. I save it, and I moved to the next one. Here this is a domain in Peru, which is not bad, it has like maybe $50 evaluation. But because Peru is expensive, it cost about $40 to register per year, this one is not good enough. So, I trash it, and move on. Then we have a typical spam domain, you see like because you know something, so you can just immediately trash it. You don’t have to look at it, and see how fast it goes.

Nick: That is beautiful.

Kalin: This one is too weak, this one is too weak, has DA 5. So, see that this is the speed that we evaluate domains in our company. Without the speed, we couldn’t cover basically the volume that we have.

Chris: That is very fast.

Nick: When you’re talking about having 30 people in office about how many people do you have working with this software particularly to hunt your domains all day long?

Kalin: We have 10 people. 10 people who only evaluate, and then help with the catching. We try to give the evaluators like not too diverse work. So, let’s say one evaluate UK domains, another evaluation German domains and so on. Because if you try to cover all the aspects of a country. Well, I do it but I have a lot of SEO experience well if you have someone one or two years of SEO experience or even people without any SEO experience. We will train them SEO and evaluating domains at the same time because we cannot find enough people with SEO experience. Obviously those are hard to find. So, you have to teach people what spam is, and it’s easy to teach people what spam is in one country because it’s more or less falls around the same trends. But to teach them of all the world spam, which is completely different.

Nick: Right.

Kalin: It would be hard and also for us we have another challenge that is we don’t use the domains for ourselves but we seldom, which means that we also have to think of the buyer. We always have to make the balance of the domain is good but will the buyer like it or this domain is bad but maybe some buyer will still want it because maybe a spam casino domain but it will have small leftovers of casino traffic, which are extremely valuable for some buyers of course. So, it’s always a trade-off between quality of the link profile, sometimes the name can be not so bad, so it can have value too. Sometimes the traffic can be more valuable than everything else, and sometimes it’s all about the buyers what they want because if they want to buy a stupid stuff, I cannot stop them. We try to make the price adjustment in such a way that people buy good domains but they still buy the bad domains. Even I make a casino spam domain ten times more expensive, still someone will buy them.

Nick: They want it, of course.

Kalin: People overestimate the nation, the country relevance, so they will pay ten times as much for a casino domain then let’s say a game domain which can be repurposed to casino domain quite easily. They will pay five times more for Swedish or Finnish domain compared to another country although if you take five domains from all over the world, and cook links to finish website. It would be better finishing but they want the right thing because especially gambling companies (see: buy gambling links), they have a lot of money. So, they think they can buy their way in. But actually from non-spam because domains almost don’t exist, no money can buy your way in into one of those.

Nick: It’s over now right. So, something I’m interested in aspects to what you’re talking about is how you price domains in and of itself. So, these ten employees that you have do they price domains or is there like a management team that’s in charge of that? Then it seems like we talk about it, it’s so just out in the open what domains are worth or how you’re gonna purpose them or what somebody is willing to pay for them. So, how especially since you’ve got this giant list of like 10,000 plus domains. How do you go about deciding this one’s gonna be priced at $70, this one’s going to be $10,000. What’s the main things you look for?

Kalin: Well, before we had a very simple approach to pricing, we tried to price according to the value that we thought the domain cost. This link, so this price and in times we realized this is wrong business-wise. Because if you look at domains that are unique, each domain only needs one buyer. One buyer may buy many domains but each domain will be bought only by one buyer. So, it’s like a hitchhiking, you only need one. Thousand cars may go past you but if one stops, you are good because you only need one. So, that should be the approach of selling domains. You want most domain sold but you only need one buyer. So, if you have a domain at a price where two or more buyers are ready to buy, you already lost the price, should have been higher.

Nick: Okay sure.

Kalin: So, the way we do it now is we price each domain at the price where we hear that the chances of it being sold in reasonable time like one year are at least 50%. But not much more than 50%, so we try to be around 50% because what will happen then is that we won’t have domains that have too low prices where people get them very cheaply. Of course everyone who buys a domain from us extracts much more value. If you think about it, you buy for five hundred dollars, so domain with three hundred referring domains. So, you can put let’s say eight site-wide links on it in theory. From such a domain, such a link would cost let’s say a $100 per year at least. You already have eight hundred dollars in value by buying a $500 domain. Ideally next day, you can sell the eight links and already have a profit of 300 and still have the domain. So, our domain though some may seem expensive, they are always cheap compared to the value which you can extract from them. Either from selling links all from ranking your product. If you rank your own projects, lets say good money-making affiliate website then you can get even more.

Because imagine if you sell the links for $800, someone revive them and takes the risk then makes even more, they make 2000 ranking an affiliate website. So, you may set the basis of the of the supply chain and they are always cheap. So, our prices even if sometimes they seem high to certain buyers, they are actually less than the actual work then you can extract from.

Nick: I think your service brings for like just tremendous value especially in this industry where things are kind of convoluted with, for lack of a better word ‘bullshit’. I think your list is always getting very straightforward and awesome, doing business with you has been great. That’s cool.

Chris: So, I think a lot of people that are watching this video might be a little bit new to domain hunting or might be a little unsure about the methods that they’re using for hunting domains. So, I was wondering if you could maybe provide a little bit of help to the new guy who’s looking to buy domains on his own. Of course, no matter how good your service is, no matter how good your prices are, people are going to want to try to do it themselves at some point too. I was hoping you might have a little bit of advice for someone who’s trying to go that route.

Kalin: Well of course, we don’t want to discourage people to try their own. I’m always a fan of people who are trying to at least try doing something on their own. So, they can see the specific of it the way it works. So, then even if you buy them then you know what you buy because if you just go into this, let’s say you start PBNs now. You start buying domains, you don’t know what you’re buying, you don’t know if you buy the right domains and considering that our prices, now do not exactly reflect the quality of the domains. Before we used to say to people, okay it doesn’t matter what you buy from the list because the prices do always reflect the quality. But since it’s not right for us to do it business-wise because we want the domains that people want more, we want to make them more expensive even if they are not better.

So, we cannot say this anymore. So, it will be great if people will just look around see what domains are available to you, the auction prices. Then they can, for themselves, they can build themselves a picture. Also I would always recommend to look at the domains. Go to the auctions, and the other auctions are super public, so you can just look at all the sold domains and check them after one month, two months, three months, what’s going on with them. Are they turning to PBNs to many sites, are they being used to redirect in which way, what are the money sites behind them. Because you cannot actually hide it, you can hide it from the bottom. You cannot hide it from a person entering a domain from GoDaddy option list three months after just curiously looking toward money sighted. So, you can do a lot of research on those and basically you can in time start to see what experienced people, who know what they’re doing. You can see the money site in Ahrefs, does it have traffic, does it rank.

If it ranks well, then maybe this PBN strategy or strategy to rank money sites with expired domains is good. Then you can actually see and investigate what domains there are that give the most value. So, basically it’s not something hidden, most of the sales of domains that happen even with domains with links that are public. You can actually monitor, you can see what’s going on, and you can make learn from other people’s mistakes, instead of making them your own. Because it will be quite expensive for mistakes to use an expensive auction domain in a wrong way and better up your money site.

Nick: So, I think it’s awesome. It kind of ties in to what you said earlier, once you have time, you can explore different opportunities. I see a lot of people that are new to SEO, and they don’t understand that it’s the inquisitive mind that figures out the solutions to these problems. Get out there and do simple things, like you said check out GoDaddy auctions, go back to them a month, two months later and see what they’ve been repurposed as, see what they’re doing with them. They give you a valuable insight without needing technical SEO expertise, it’s like put it in an excel file and then keep track of it, simple suggestions.

Kalin: While I do encourage people to like investigate and stuff, it’s depending on the TLD you need. So, if it’s .com, or .uk or some other country, there are different limitations about the ways you can get domains. So, then you’re going to really domain Industry limitations, and we are a huge company now, not huge but big for the thing we do, 50 people. We still don’t do German and French domains, and we are starting to Spain just now. We have a big doing in Spain, so why is that? This is because it’s hard, there are limitations in some countries, catching is very expensive. So, basically catching system is the main problem, you either have auctions or you have catching, there are no other models in the domain industry.

If you have options, then it will be hard to get anything below market price. You should really focus on doing good SEO with what you can get at market price. So, like choosing a good niche for affiliate and finding a good domain for it and stuff like this but you cannot really profit from taking a good domain cheap.

Nick: Right.

Kalin: When you have catching, sometimes there’s a low barrier of entry to catching in a certain country. Sometimes it’s high, and realizing if it’s low high is no small deal. I mean no one will really tell you that you cannot see this information anyway, you just have to try for yourselves and invest time and money to try it. We have done this investment in all countries. So, it’s quite a lot of initial investment and when people ask me how we do get a domain. There’s no magic trickery literally. It’s a mix of extreme accumulation of niche knowledge, how things work in every country.

A lot of time, a lot of developers a lot of money there is no silver bullet. We have only a 100k in deposits so we can catch. Because we catch in so many different places at one that only the deposit you need to have. So, you can buy basically pay with credit fold for the domains while you catch them. Because you don’t have time for payment you actually have, prepaid took for the API’s and everything to work. So, we only have 100K in deposits.

Nick: Okay.

Kalin: So, it’s like the most primitive barrier to entry but, and also when you owe the other stuff. So, it’s easy to imagine that’s a small guy who a good developer can try catching domains. It can be the case in some rare cases but mostly it’s not easy.

Nick: Right.

Kalin: The scrapers don’t want to just go for broken links that they think is mostly dying. Unless you search something, you’re on a very very specific niche, you want just to scrape your niche website. Because otherwise all the domains that the scrapers find are domains that we have decided that our below, our floor that we don’t buy or catch. Because we already know all domain. So, every time a scraper find the domain we already know about this domain that it exists that it’s available.

So, if you didn’t get it, well of course sometimes we’re just lazy and because we cannot cover. But if it’s a good domain and we didn’t get it. It probably not that good.

Chris: Gotcha. So, going back to domain a little bit, you had mentioned that there is no silver bullet. I think a mistake that a lot of people make when they’re hunting domains and might be new to hunting domains is, they put too much emphasis on looking for this one metric. That they consider a silver bullet. You had said earlier you’d mentioned that how bad trust flow is and how bad it is at judging the value of a domain. It’s so true, but I think it’s probably the most common mistake I see people making with domain hunting is that, they’re looking at these metrics and they’re making horrible decisions based on this information.

Kalin: This is true but you need the metrics because our database has 300 million domains. So, the only way you can solve any domains with things is by metrics. So, we need metrics we pay Majestic, we pay Ahrefs for, we pay Majestic High Plan for API and then we pay Ahrefs Agency plans. We have a lot of manual checks. But metrics is not everything but metrics can help. Actually, I am a fan of metrics contrary to popular opinion about metrics. But metrics should only be looked at in the context of what the website is.

So, if the website is a news website in a country that, where the structure of the news websites which are the main donor of links to other news websites. It’s such it then don’t have good internal linking so their interventions don’t have high Majestic trust flow. So, basically you can have a domain with quite nice media links which Trust Flow 1 even zero. So, it is a logarithmic zero, so imagine how low. It’s a logarithmic scale. So, just trust flow it’s a very bad metric because it’s the normally such as crazy. You can have a shitty domain with Trust Flow 30 and a great domain trust for one or even zero.

So, you cannot ever rely on trust flow, but you can rely referring domains for your initial filtering. You can realize that if a domain has Ahrefs, they are zero. It’s bad, this is sure. If it’s one, it’s almost certainly bad and from two and up you can have some that again with media links. The Ahrefs algos, I used to like it more before the massive update. The switch but after the switch I learned to interpret it again. The key thing about the switch is that, Ahrefs gets the following idea. Most spammy websites like directories, hacked websites, forum, unprotected block comments and all of those, what is the common thing they all have a lot of external links across the whole domain.

So, not necessarily the page, a directory may have a single listing page with only one link to the website. But the domain, across the domain they always have a lot of outgoing. So, Ahrefs said, okay let’s divide the power of the link from this webpage to the number of links for the whole domain the outgoing links. Then we kill off the stems, stem will never again increase the app. Okay, smart idea but then the media also have a lot of outgoing links.  That’s a BBC has links to ten million domains or something. So, then they also kill the value of the media links and all of the domains that you search for we trusted media links like BBC.

They have very low they are now if they have only those and no else. So, you should interpret the metric according to whether the website has mostly media links or mostly all the links. Or of course if it’s a web design that makes free small websites but they are only outgoing link is the footer link to the web designs to do. Then you have the authority which basically almost zero value. So, you’ve always remembered what you divide by, and then you can get back to looking at Ahrefs DR.

Because if you look at out of context it may seem a mess. But if you look at in the context of what the website is and its main link sources, then you can actually look at metrics.

Chris: Gotcha.

Kalin: But Trust Flow is really messy like nothing will help you interpret Trust Flow or motive on context. So, if your main sources should be DA which is quite stable DR in context and referring domains and Trust Flow you should never use unless you see if it’s a ton of referring domains and Trust Flow one then it’s bad. But if it’s Trust Flow one in fifty domains it may be good so it’s a bit paradoxical.

Chris: Sure awesome. I think that’s gonna yeah, I think there’s some people for sure. Yeah, we’re a little bit in the same boat. A lot of our links are priced by referring domains and people always very commonly want them priced by something else and wondering why we’re pricing them by referring domains. So, we always tell them, once you determine everything else to be quality then referring domains tends to be a very strong determiner of value.

Kalin: Absolutely.

Chris: Yeah and so you’re saying that you think DA is also a very stable metric for people to look at like DA, PA.

Kalin: Yes, mostly well up here I don’t look at because it’s more like a paid metric but not domain level. But DA we look at into and sometimes it happens that after the most updated their index; I think it was earlier this year. After this update, it’s happens that website that are not so good get between DA 25 – 30. But it’s hard to get more than 30 without being a good website. But most importantly it’s got to be below 15 and not be very shitty.

Chris: Gotcha.

Kalin: So, this really helps evaluate, because sometimes you know there are mirrors and sometimes they confuse Majestic and Ahrefs. But if the DA is below 15, then basically it’s a weak domain.

Chris: Gotcha. One more question about, when you’re looking at the backlink profile of a domain. We’ve talked about referring domains and some other metrics and I also you know you showed us that you’re looking at the domains that are linking to that domain. But do you aside from looking at the domain that the link is coming from? Do you look for relevance in any other way? Are you looking at keywords and linking page titles things like that inner-page URLs, or you mainly just looking at the domain that the link is coming from?

Kalin: We try to look at the links mostly to determine what the website was about when we evaluate the domain. Because actually it’s easier to see what the website was about based on the links than based on something else, which is super slow. So, the links you look at anyway so you can check the links. But as domain is kept for almost entirely natural links, it’s actually they’re always relevant a natural link is always relevant. There cannot be a natural link that is not relevant. Because someone put it there as a genuine recommendation for something.,

So, it’s always relevant even is the website is about something else there’s always some connection. Because it’s a natural link. So, the domains, so with natural link they have 100% relevancy. Because it’s how it works.

Chris: Gotcha. Got any more questions?

Nick: Well, basically I think I’d like to hear and I think the viewers would like to hear a little bit more about SEO domains as well. You know we’ve covered the fact that you’ve got do you say 300,000 sites on inventory.

Kalin: We have 300 million websites in the real database. We monitor those and when they go near expiration, we do the evaluation process. We decide after which we are after which ones we are going to catch, then we do priorities. Because sometimes it’s worth bidding in an option and other times. It’s not sometimes it’s worth placing an expensive back order and not other times it just worth trying to catch the domains yourself were cheap. But catching ourselves for cheapest. Like one second or something related.

Like it’s not, that we leave it to the scraper. So, if we want if you want it and we are they get it or someone with better technology or more investment get this. But if domain that we chose to catch will never get into scrapers cans ever.

Nick: So, in aspects to being a registrar, I would say you’re probably pretty neat you down as a registrar. Correct? You’re the only one really basing this off metrics that apply it to the SEO community. I mean there’s not many of y’all out there at this level. Is there?

Kalin: We are registrar actually in some of these we have registrar more than once. So, we have I think about 50 accreditations across different these mixes. We, I can registrar so theoretically would be should be able to change .com. We have very very limited chance. So, we haven’t tried that drop catch .com has a thousand registrar nickname scales about 500. So, imagine the competition for catching .com. Each way this track goes to cost like an $8,000 initially and 4,000 each year only in fees.

So, imagine the cost of maintaining drop catch .com, it’s 4 million annually in fees, that’s why. So, that’s a very very big industry of course the main focus is not the SEO names but the good names that the good .com’s that may be worth five figures a lot of them. But we are good with catching in UK, we are good in catching in a lot of small countries. We do with Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Ireland, Romania, Ukraine and a lot of other countries Denmark, Finland.

Nick: Currently, it’s 50 employees hunting worldwide. It’s hard to even imagine like room for expansion on this, but do you have big plans for additional things. You’d be moving on with SEO .domains.

Kalin: We met all domain; the first step will be to right now we have a bank account where people can search a future domain and order them. So, we’ll build, it’s already built but we haven’t sent the users their credentials. We’re building a user account system, so everyone can account with their orders and everything. Then at some point people will be able to pay online instead of just ordering. We don’t want people to pay online right now because sometimes the stuff can happen with people buying a domain. Then deciding to they don’t want the exact domain because of all the CCT of these restrictions.

Yeah, you know there are some cases, but after we get a good process, we will have online payments. Then we have an affiliate program I’m sure that this will make a lot of people happy. The next big step is that we’ll have a domain management system. We are registrar so when we get the right software in place and the right processes. After you order a domain, you will be able to just receive the domain in your account, without having no castle, no bushes, no transfers. Just immediately being able to manage your name servers. In this case, it will be just as seamless as buying a .com from GoDaddy options.

It will be the same, actually better because it will be made without the wait. So, you buy and immediately you have access to the domains in your account. They may be 50 different TLDs you want in different registrars. You don’t want to need to worry about anything you just pain you get the domains, so this is the final goal.

Nick: That’s very cool.

Kalin: Also, will start a cost price registrar. So, then everyone can have the domains with us at exactly how much it cost with the register so .com for $8 and everything super cheap. And apart from the cost price register will always also open a marketplace, which will be great for someone who has domains with good names. But doesn’t know the right way to put them for sale.

Nick: Sure.

Kalin: So, right now there are a lot of such domain owners, who don’t really want to go through the hassle to list the domains and marketplace and so on. So, we’ll make up registrar marketplace hybrid where you just transfer your domain’s in. It gets listed in our marketplace in every other marketplace and you just get offers. You can counteroffer accept and so on and you can say, we all domains with basically doing nothing.

Nick: Very cool.

Kalin: The nice part will be that since there are with us is registrar after you sold the domain you just get your money. We take care of the transfer because domains are already with us.

Nick: That’s great. So, you said that’s what the plans are for SEO domains. Correct me if I’m wrong but it seemed like maybe Kalin’s got some other things up his sleeve in aspects to other companies or other ventures maybe you’re working on.

Kalin: Yeah, basically SEO domains is not a company, it is just a brand of feeDoms. So, some of the stuff I told you is related to E-Doms. But for SEO domains the best thing will be that people will be able to manage the domains they both with us. Because right now they are often buying the domain, then they use bad registrar, CCTLD. These are kind of a mess. So, if you use bad registrar it’s never good.

Nick: Right.

Kalin: So, it’s a very important that you use the best possible registrars. If we are registrar, we can provide a great service that bypasses all the problems that CCTLD of these are not always for.

Chris: Understood. So, I guess we’ve been going a little bit over an hour now we don’t want to steal all your time. So, I guess we will start wrapping things up a little bit.

Kalin: I think someone in the audience might fall asleep.

Nick: No, no. Sure, in aspects to wrapping it up, just some basic questions.

Chris: Yeah, I guess just a few last questions for you. If you could give someone who doesn’t know much about domains, that’s looking to purchase domains for whatever reason PBN, 301’s money sites whatever. If you could give them one piece of advice, what would that be?

Kalin: Oh, just one.

Chris: Yes, one concise piece of advice.

Nick: That stepping in right direction.

Kalin: Well, if they are starting now, I would say I’ll just start slow and learn from your own results and mistakes and so on. Or if you wanna start big because you’re under pressure for some reason. Let’s say you work in a company and your boss say, okay we’re starting doing a thousand websites, PBN. It just ask people for help, so there are a lot of people who have some experience in this. So, ask people for help that are actually doing it. Don’t just read stuff online because especially about picking domains the stuff that’s online is mostly either nowhere. Or it’s a very shallow.

Because let’s take one of the most popular PBN guides, the Darryl Rosser’s guide last year.

Chris: Well known.

Kalin: So, it has a ton of useful helpful stuff and when it gets to domains it goes like. Oh, you should pick good domain that I’m not spending basically that it’s like a few lines. Okay, but where do you get them for cheap? How do you save your time from bidding 8,000 options? What should your expectations be about getting a domain with certain power for money? Like you cannot read about this anywhere. Everyone just keeps this and it’s quite a big part of building a PBN or choosing a domain for PBNs or 301, or choosing a domain for a money side.

It’s a big part because basically you should, okay now you understand that the domain should be good and not spent. But what about the cash and the time you can invest for each domain and what are the right places to buy. All of this is not too discussed a lot. So, the best place to learn it is from other people that are doing it. If you cannot read it, then I’ll try to learn from experience. Go to other big PBN or affiliates and okay, how do you approach this problem this problem, what should I expect from certain situations.

Chris: Right, cool thank you. So, everybody watching this if you have PBN domain questions go ahead and send Kalin a message on Facebook.

Kalin: Yes, bro. So, I guess that you have experts for everything. I can tell a lot about CCTLD domains but for let’s say if you want to do auction domains only for some reason. Then basically you should go to someone who is experienced with GoDaddy auctions.

Nick: Oh, do you want to touch on that real quick? I think it’s a very hot topic I’m sorry I know we serve a winding down. But auction domains vs expired domains, your honest opinion on what you think about it?

Kalin: Yeah, this is then unfortunately some technical stuff coming again. I keep answering this question but no one ever remembers the answer because it’s very technical. So, basically there are two kinds of domains and then one kind falls against into two kinds. So, you had country domains and you have dot-com net for the global ones. So, with the com or the global ones Google is a registrar and also, it’s super easy to check that the creation date. But if your registrar it’s super, super, super more easy. Because we have an internal channel for who is queries which is unlimited.

Google is a registrar for .com Network because they have Google domains, they sell domains. So, what happens is that every .com that Google sees Google instantly knows the creation date., It’s super-fast and easy to check and they have implemented this into the algorithm. So, when a domain .com expire so it expires and it’s called by drop catch com net domain. So, the notorious expired domains, Google sees that it changed owner. Even if it had links, if it the creation date is yesterday or one month ago it did change on and Google knows this for sure.

Nick: Right.

Kalin: Well, if a domain goes through GoDaddy Auction, NameJet, Dynadot, or another auction, it doesn’t expire. Because the registrar’s holds it and then sells it to another user. So, it actually doesn’t expire. If you keep the Registrar the same day Google doesn’t know it changed owner. So, that’s the difference between auction and expired domains. But these differences only apply to this com network. So, on the other side the CCTLD is UKD all the CCTLD of these Google is not a registrar. It’s extremely hard to get the creation date for a lot of domains.

Some domains they don’t have a creation date they don’t have a creation date in, for domains in Germany, for domains in Spain, for domains in Greece, for many other countries. So, basically the Google approach to creation dates in country domains, its fuckin. It may see it some bands because some here and others don’t have so we just don’t do it. So, in this case Google doesn’t know that the owner changed because they don’t check it they don’t even try to check if the owner change.

So, every domain that is a country domain by defaulted Google doesn’t apply the did owner change or not. So, it Google implies that the owner is the same right just like .com’s from auctions. So, basically .com’s from auctions which are good and CCTLD of these which are also good and only the drop domains from drop catch and snap names only. They’re the only ones that get developed, not 100% a bit develop. But there’s also another thing to this. The country domains they have no auctions and no big public lists.

So, GoDaddy and name jet have a very public list remember what I told you that you can investigate what people are doing with those domains. Because the lists are public. Well, they have actually very public it’s a huge one-click downloadable list and it goes into all the aggregate it goes into don’t cope, goes into expired domains dotnet. It goes there because it’s public and it’s public for Google too. So, every domain that ends will go to the auction. Google for now doesn’t put this as a flag that the owner might have changed and it might be a potential PBN in the future.

But in the future, this may change, because you never know. It’s too easy it’s just as easy as the creation that day they all are already implemented. So, we never know, actually the auctions might want one they get flagged of course not only because of this but with other combined with other factors. Let’s say if it was in GoDaddy auction and if it’s a WordPress. If it has let’s say gambling content and if it gets outgoing links. Then maybe a Google editor will come to check what’s going on in all. These kinds of scenarios are possible.

So, I can see that CCTLD domain safer because Google doesn’t have a lot of data to start any investigations from there. Everything is super messy and super hidden. So, that’s why one of the reasons why we massively put our CCTLD of these in regards to catching and selling. Of course, the other reason is that CCTLD we can get cheaper compared to auction domains which go for market price. But I think that CCTLD of these are friendly to the US market. .IO, .me, .to, .la Los Angeles.

Others can be used in the US market, so still you not only title .com’s forever. There are options and I think that this dividing into sectors is crucial to understanding the expired domains industry that you have country domains. Which are good, you have auction domains which are good very good for now but we don’t know the future because Google can actually see what domain was an option quite easily if they want it to. We have the drop domains that Google already took the steps to develop.

Chris: So, as far as .com’s go for your own business you kind of see it as a pretty risky investment for the future.

Kalin: We don’t do auctions but we do set here some .com’s that you can find on SEO domains. This is there where a private partnership with the registrar. So, they are actually technically absolutely the same as domain single GoDaddy auctions, the name jet and the other auctions. But with the only slight difference that they were never in a public list. Because we have a deal with the registrar can we just buy out private with a good domain from you, because then you won’t have to build options and stuff and they were fine and we do this. So, these are actually another very good type for the future.

Of course, you can do this with all domains. You can just go to the domain and say, oh man I say your domain is expiring do you want $500 because I find the value more and then you get an amazing domain for $500. Which may get thousands of links people have been doing this and they’re still doing it and this is a very good approach of course. I can only say that this is one of the best ways you can get a domain. We’re not doing it because we’re too lazy basically. But it’s a very good approach that you can do to get something below market price.

But apart from this the .com’s in the future may become more risk in than there are now.

Chris: Yeah, so I guess people might rely on companies such as yours that are buying them before they go on any kind of public list. So, could even end up being good for you, good positioning.

Kalin: Yes, we feel that we’re well positioned. But only the future will tell.

Chris: Well, I think that’s about it Kalin. We really appreciate you taking the time.

Nick: Do you want to end on anything? Would you like to say anything particularly to the viewers?

Chris: Anyone you want to shout out or plug?

Nick: Yeah, Hi mom.

Nick: Well, I was just at Chiang Mai. I would like to care to say great words for my, you organizer all the people who took part and all the attendees. It’s an amazing community that’s forming there. So, I hope to see you next year there.

Chris: Sure, will be out there.

Kalin: And hope to see you there too.

Chris: Where we’ve got it all next year.

Nick: We do have it.

Chris: We’re doing it next year, it’s happening.

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